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I knew this day would come and as I predicted, the task was much harder than CCP anticipated.  As I predicted might happen, they went with a “every ship can be flown at level 1” mentality, similar to what they did with Mining Barges, but that put them in a bit of a cramp because the races have an odd number of industrials.

And so, they punted* it.

(*For those that don’t know, a “punt” is an American Football (not soccer or what the rest of the world calls “football”) term that is kicked only a short distance in the hopes that this will either a.) give the ball enough time to roll out of bounds and then give an automatic start location for the next play, or b.) trick the team into going for the ball and perhaps fumbling the ball allowing your team to get possession again.)

Basically they worked backwards from the Tech 2 Transport and gave each race an agile version and a heavy hauler version.  Here is what they came up with for specifics, grouped by the agile version, the heavy hauler version, and finally the rift-raff in between:

SIGIL

Amarr Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility (was max velocity)

Slot layout: 2H, 4M(+1), 6L(+1); 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 250 PWG(+180), 750 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 2600(-400) / 21234m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 780(+624) / 1320(+304) / 2400(+1540)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 125(-30) / .88(-.12) / 10500000(-500000) / 12.8(-2.4)
Signature radius: 175(-35)

BADGER

Caldari Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility (was max velocity)

Slot layout: 2H(+1), 5M(+3), 5L(+3); 1 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 185 PWG(+135), 950 CPU(+200)
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 3700(-425) / 18588m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1440(+1166) / 810(+67) / 2060(+1200)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 127(+7) / .89(+.1) / 10450000(-2300000) / 12.9(-1.1)
Signature radius: 190(-30)

WREATHE

Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility (was max velocity)

Slot layout: 2H(+1), 5M(+3), 5L(+3); 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 200 PWG(+155), 800 CPU(+200)
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 3100(-200) / 19857m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1140(+1061) / 1080(+337) / 2250(+1469)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140(+15) / .81(-.19) / 11000000(-200000) / 12.35(-1.5)
Signature radius: 155(-5)

Iteron

Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility (was max velocity)

Slot layout: 2H(+1), 5M(+3), 5L(+3); 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 215 PWG(+170), 750 CPU(+150)
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 3300(+200) / 21138m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 960(+881) / 1200(+419) / 2600(+1819)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130(+5) / .78(-.22) / 11250000(+1000000) / 12.2(-2)
Signature radius: 185(-5)

Before I go on, let’s look at the point of these ships.  The intent was for these guys to be fast and tanky.  First off, it doesn’t really matter all that much if you are tanky because if your enemies catch you, and you can’t effectively shoot back, it’s then just a matter of time before they break you.

Second, despite being agile, all of these industrials have the sig radius of a large cruiser.  Easy pickings for any frigate tackler which puts you back to my first point.

Third, the powergrid for all of these ships is just too low for anything but resistance type tank, which really is a penalty and nerf for armor tanked industrials.

End Verdict: Go back to the drawing board.  I think they carry too much cargo and aren’t really that good on defense, at least not enough to justify risking the ship in more dangerous areas like low-sec.
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BESTOWER

Amarr Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 1H(-1), 4M, 6L(+2); 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 90 PWG(+20), 750 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 4800 / 39201m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 160(-35) / 935(-238) / 900(-273)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(-15) / 1 / 13500000 / 18.7
Signature radius: 215(+5)

BADGER MARK II

Caldari Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 1H(-1), 6M, 4L(+1); 1 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 80 PWG, 1000 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 7000(+1750) / 35167m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680(+132) / 760(-256) / 810(-206)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .93 / 13000000(-500000) / 16.8(-.6)
Signature radius: 230(-20)

HOARDER

Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 1H, 5M(+2), 5L(+2); 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 80 PWG(+20), 750 CPU(+100)
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 5700(+600) / 36511m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 310(+36) / 825(-191) / 935(-81)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .91(-.09) / 11500000 / 14.5(-1.4)
Signature radius: 200(+20)

ITERON MARK V

Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 1H(-1), 5M, 5L; 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 85 PWG, 850 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 6000 / 38433m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 375(-94) / 850(-518) / 970(-515)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110 / .87(-.13) / 12500000(+750000) / 15.1(-1.2)
Signature radius: 220(-10)

On this group, the CCP art department kind of lost their minds.  For some reason they like the Hoarder model over the Mammoth model.  Need proof?  From CCP Rise’s own mouth:

About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don’t like the way the Mammoth looks. I’ll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

Yeah.. I’m a big fan of the Mammoth.  Partially because it looks a lot like this:

The Godfather of the Mammoth..

The Godfather of the Mammoth..

On the other hand, the Hoarder looks more like:

From Battle From Beyond the Stars..

From Battle Beyond the Stars..

Maybe someone at CCP art department likes campy Sci-Fi flicks a little too much..

The rest of the ships carry a significantly larger payload than before.  But the payload isn’t a “WOW” sized amount and still gets stuck between the “too small to move my hanger” and “too big and too expensive to buy” just for the occasional heavy lifting, to say nothing about moving the most important thing.. ships.

Verdict: These are okay, all the races need a heavy hauler like these.  Nevertheless, there is no original thinking behind this.

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ITERON MARK II

Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 2H, 5M, 4L; 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 190 PWG, 780 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 4600 / 23110m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 1110 / 2150
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 125 / .85 / 11625000 / 13.7
Signature radius: 185

ITERON MARK III

Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 2H, 5M, 4L; 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 150 PWG, 800 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 4900 / 24617m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 675 / 1025 / 1785
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .87 / 11500000 / 13.9
Signature radius: 195

ITERON MARK IV

Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 5L; 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 120 PWG, 825 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 5100 / 28931m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 525 / 940 / 1370
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .9 / 11975000 / 15
Signature radius: 205

MAMMOTH

Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 2H, 5M, 4L; 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 140 PWG, 775 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 4400 / 22105m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 690 / 1050 / 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .91 / 11375000 / 14.3
Signature radius: 190

The rest of these ships basically try to frankenstein themselves into something in between.  Maybe it works.. maybe it doesn’t.  But no matter what you think.. it definitely isn’t original.  This should have been done better, and while they admit they had a lot of “neat ideas”, none of them got utilized.  Unfortunately, they got hung up on the believe that they needed to be “fair”.

No Really, It Isn’t Good to be Fair

No, there was no need to be “fair” primarily because there is no loss in training time no matter what race you start out in.  So, being unfair in this case now allows you to have variety, to give each race a bit of industrial style and difference.  Two schools of thought can be seen by players in how to address this issue:

  • Give each race a basic heavy hauler, then with the remaining variety of industrials, allow each one to focus specifically on a particular type of ore or industry.

Well, to me, that’s a bit.. simplistic and perhaps even unnecessary.  Unless each level brings out DRAMATIC changes in cargo sizes for a particular ore or industry, you aren’t really going to spend lots of isk, especially if your end goal will eventually be freighters and the like.  Not saying its not a good idea, I just don’t think its a great idea.

The second idea also has some clout behind it:

  • Give each race a basic heavy hauler, then give each industrial the ability to excel at a particular task.  The most popular of which follows this list:
  • 1: Tanky
  • 2: Fast
  • 3: Big
  • 4: Specialist cargo (ore/gas/ice)
  • 5: Fitting service
  • 6: Fleet hangar.

I personally REALLY like this setup, though not so much the specialist cargo.  I really think that should be more apt towards smuggling/drug running (once CCP figures out how to do that right).  Nevertheless, this would give industrial pilots much more variety and really be more focused on what Tiercide is supposed to be for all ships – “That Every Ship Has A Purpose”

CCP Rise, CCP Fozzie, CCP Ytterbium, these ships need to go back to the drawing board.  Let the CSM have a crack at your neat ideas before you throw them out.

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